Episode 1:

intersectional

gummy bears

[Music]

 

Rosey: Hello Everyone, welcome to Feasting Feminists. I'm Rosey.

 

Kate: And I'm Kate.

 

R: And today we're going to be talking about 'Intersectional Gummy Bears and Why the Red Ones Think They're the Best."

 

K: I don't know why they think they're the best, they're not so great.

[Laughter]

 

R: Ok, since this is our first podcast, we're going to do a little introduction of ourselves, and um, as you can probably tell from the title today, we're going to talk about intersectionality.

 

K: And so we're also going to tell you like, how we came to intersectional feminism and what that journey was like for us. So, my name is Kate, and I'm a physics student. I am interested in astronomy and astrophysics. My favorite band is Hanson. [Rosey chuckles] My favorite movie quote is from 'Legally Blonde,' where stupid Warner's like, "You're just not smart enough Elle." And Elle is all like "Am I high on glue, or did we not get into the same law school, Warner?" and I'm just like "Get it, Elle!" And then, um, let's see, someday I'm going to run for office, and all of my speeches will come from Spice Girls lyrics [Rosey chuckles] and then once I'm [Rosey Laughs] Don't laugh at my dream, and once I am elected, I am going to change all the cabinet people to be spices. So there will be like, Treasury, Treasurer Spice, um, you know, Department of Defense Spice, Secretary of Spice. And then I'm also going to create the National Aeronautics and Spice Administration.

 

R: [laughs] That's amazing.

 

K: Well, I'm pretty great. And then, so how I came to intersectional feminism, was I started escorting at an abortion clinic, and I learned about reproductive justice versus reproductive rights. And I started learning, as I was learning about this idea that there was more to reproductive justice than just the right to abortion, um, I started learning about the other kinds of justice that are connected and through learning about all of these different kinds of justice like environmental justice, racial justice, economic justice and how this tied in with reproductive justice, um, I came to intersectional feminism. So.

 

R: Nice. Um Well, I'm Rosey. I'm a wife and mother. Um, I'm about to begin a new career as a web developer on Monday, so I'm super excited but also really nervous. We'll see how it goes, I'll try not to crash the internet. Um, I am a basic bitch. So I can often be seen walking around with a bun on my head, [starts talking nasally with drawn out vowels], I talk like this a lot. Um, I drink a lot of starbucks and wear hipster clothes. I have like, a MacBook and an Iphone. So, I'm very hipster. Or at least, Louisville Hipster, you know what I mean?

 

K: I mean you are.

 

R: Yeah. Basically. Let's see, what else. My favorite color is purple and I'm pretty obsessed with it, so I can often be seen wearing purple from head to toe so that's a lot of fun. Like my nails and my computer match today. Love Purple. I came to intersectional feminism because of a good friend who invited me to a Facebook group, shout out to Whitney Salyer Woot Woot, and the Facebook group was dedicated to intersectional feminism and various people from various walks of life, all contributing to a conversation and sharing their experiences. So you had Women of Color, people from the LGBTQ community, you had people with disabilities and hidden illnesses all contributing to the conversation and sharing their experiences and sharing information. So from reading the articles that were posted, and the posts by the people in the group, I just learned how privilege affects my life and I learned about the lived experiences of people in demographics other than mine and it was just a huge learning experience, so that's how I adopted intersectional feminism.

 

[music]

 

K: So the way that we intend this podcast to kind of be used, is as a resource for privileged people to hear the voices of marginalized and oppressed people. We've got the suggested readings on our website, and we're going to talk about articles written by these people because these, you know, we need to hear their voices directly. We're also going to have a forum so there can be discussion and we can answer each other's questions and we can really break down and really unpack the things that we need to do without invading other people's safe spaces. We really want this- Get the voices of marginalized and oppressed people, we're going to talk about them in the podcast, we're going to link to them on the web, on the website and then you know, we're going to have a space where we can talk about these things. Because you know, it seems like- I mean, I know I had a lot of questions .

 

R: Mmhmm

 

K: in the beginning when I started learning about different things and so I think that it's important that we be available to do that.

 

R: Yeah. And I know that I did a lot of that unpacking in safe spaces as well and so I don't mean to point the finger, I was for sure to blame for that as well. I think it's just difficult when you're unpacking as a privileged person, you don't really know that you're speaking from a place of privilege, you haven't done that unpacking so you don't know how to go about seeking the information that you want. And when you have this space that you're like "Oh well, you know, there are women of color right here, why don't I just ask them?" And you're unaware that that can be triggering and that can be harmful. And so you know, we just wanted a space where we can take that out of safe spaces for the marginalized and the oppressed. And we also don't want this to feel like a space where anyone has to be perfect, we're still doing a lot of unpacking, we're extremely privileged people ourselves and so we're still unpacking too, that's a process. And so you know, feel free to like, let us know if we say anything that makes you feel uncomfortable, or if you catch us saying something that, you know maybe a word or a phrase means something that we don't realize that it means, or you've seen somewhere that something that we are saying isn't the accepted language anymore, or whatever that is, we want this to be a collaborative effort.

 

[Music]

 

R: As we mentioned earlier, this podcast episode is going to be about intersectionality. So what is intersectionality? Intersectionality is an understanding that there are various facets to a person's identity and they can be made up of a person's race, gender, sexual orientation, gender identity.

 

K: Class

 

R: Huh? Yes, class is a big one. And the idea that these things cannot be examined exclusively from one another, that they have to be examined as they intersect. So, for instance, you can't examine a black woman as just a black person or just a woman. You have to examine her and her experiences as a Black Woman because she has experiences that will be unique to her because she's a black woman.

 

K: In fact, intersectionality came from black women. The idea, you know you can trace it back as far as slavery and the idea that black women were very aware that there were different oppressions that they experienced, but they experienced them all together,

 

R: Mmhmm.

 

K: while other groups maybe only experienced one.

 

R: Right.

 

K: [Cough] Sojourner Truth for example, at the women's convention in 1851 did her speech about "Ain't I a Woman?" because you know, we're talking about suffrage and women's rights to vote, but only for white women.

 

R: Right

 

K: And so, you know, this idea that like, "Well, Ain't I a Woman?" Um, so they should've gotten the vote as a woman, but they were denied it right, based on race.

 

R: That's a good example too of that, of that intersectionality that lies there, that these facets of one's identity sort of layer over top of one each other- one another

 

K: Right

 

R: Even when we're talking about like, the wage gap, people often refer to women making what is it like, seventy-two cents?

 

K: Seventy-seven

 

R: Seventy-seven cents for every dollar that a man makes. Well, you're talking about-

 

K: White Women

 

R: White men, and white women and for black women it's even less than that and for hispanic women it's even less than that.

 

K: Even lower, yeah.

 

R: And so, this idea of intersectionality those things layer on top of each other.

 

K: And that's you know, another great example, because not only is it race and gender, but you've also got class.

 

R: Mmhmm

 

K: Right, because this is an aspect of economic justice.

 

R: Exactly.

 

K: You know, how much money people make.

 

R: Mmhmm

 

K: And if they are able to support themselves and make a living.

 

R: Mmhmm

 

K: And so, the, the idea like this theory was.. Back you know, during Sojourner Truth's lifetime they called these um, intersecting oppressions, or simultaneous oppressions. And then the term intersectionality was used by Kimberle Crenshaw in 1989.

 

R: And so that's where the term was really coined. And the movement really grew out of black women you know, just needing a space. You know, we talk about feminism all the time but the first couple of waves of feminism are really white feminism. They're feminism that only protects white women. And black women were basically saying like, "Hey, Hi, Here I am!" and white women were ignoring them and basically saying "Oh it's fine, it's fine, women's rights will protect us all." Well, no. Not necessarily. You know, like we discussed the wage gap, and we discussed voting rights and it's not true that you can just have this umbrella term of feminism and expect it to be this space for all women, you have to create those spaces-

 

K: Mmhmm

 

R: And you have to create that awareness and you have to focus on the specifics of what that needs to mean for all women. And so black women created this movement and now it's grown today to include all kinds of people.

 

[Music]

 

R: White privilege refers to the privileges afforded to white skin people that are not afforded to non-white skinned people.

 

K: Mmhmm

 

R: So you know, from there you can draw the conclusion that privilege is any set of...

 

K: I mean, it's really any set of-

 

Both: Privileges

 

R: That you're afforded

 

K: Yeah, that you have that other people might not have. You know, I think it's also really important to talk about the fact that a lot of.. part of having privilege is not knowing that you have privilege.

 

R: Mmhmm.

 

K: And so, you know, it that seems to be one of the hardest things I've found when I try to talk about privilege with other people. It was one of the things that was really hard for me to learn about myself.

 

R: Mmhmm

 

K: Right, because you know, I don't feel like I go through my day, benefitting,

 

R: Mmhmm

 

K: Off, you know, or I didn't feel, like I went through the day benefitting off the fact that my skin was white. And that other people were actually being impacted negatively by the color of their skin. And so, you know, having to sort of realize those things was really uncomfortable because for me there was an element of like, "Oh, I should feel bad."

 

R: Mmhmm

 

K: Right, like, I should feel really guilty that, I am a white person.

 

R: Right

 

K: And that's not what privilege is about. I don't think.

 

R: No. I mean, I think a lot of people yeah, try to say "Well, I'm not a bad person just because I'm white." And it's like, no no no, no one's saying that. Like, we're just saying that there are certainly privileges that you're afforded, you know, that I am afforded because I'm white that other people are not afforded and it's just an awareness of that. But it is a difficult thing to realize and I'm going to bring up particularly the intersection of being someone who is white but also poor.

 

K: Mmhmm

 

R: Because I think that's where it gets really difficult

 

K: Yes.

 

R: For poor white people to recognize that there are still privileges that we're afforded because of the color of our skin. Now I grew up poor, so when I first heard about white privilege I was like "you've got to be kidding me, if you only knew my life story" [laughs] "If you only knew!" The days that I went you know, eating, you know bologna sandwiches for breakfast, lunch and dinner, because all we had in the house was bread and bologna and you know, that kind of stuff.

 

K: Peanut Butta.

 

R: Yeah peanut butter, we made peanut butter cookies all the time because all we could scrounge together was peanut butter, flour and sugar you know.

 

K: Mmhmm

 

R: It was like, that... the level of poverty that we lived in, was you know, it was just kind of mind boggling to me that anyone could ever consider us privileged.

 

K: Mmhmm

 

R: And so it's recognizing that you know, yes there are poor white people, and yes those people work very hard to get where they are in life, but at the same time no one is going to assume you're poor because of the color of your skin,

 

K: Mmhmm

 

R: No one's going to assume that, you know, you're going to steal something when you're in a store.

 

K: Mmhmm

 

R: And so it's, there's still that privilege that is afforded to you because of the color of your skin.

 

K: Well and I think it's important to recognize that it's part of the white supremacist narrative, that we've established in America. In the United States of America where you know, if you're poor and you become successful-

 

R: Mmhmm

 

K: Right, you've pulled yourself up by your bootstraps.

 

R: Ah the bootstraps.

 

K: And, Right! And, but, we've esta- you know, there's all these stereotypes about African American people like you were saying, like, no one assumes that I'm going to steal anything.

 

R: Right

 

K: No one assumed you were going to steal anything.

 

R: Right

 

K: And, if WE are successful, it's because of, you know, we have this fortitude-

 

R: We work hard. Yeah

 

K: And we worked hard, and we had this great character.

 

R: And work ethic.

 

K: Right, and when you have an African American student who is the daughter of the President of the United States, gets into Harvard.

 

R: Oh yeah.

 

K: And people are like "Oh it's Affirmative Action."

 

R: [Laughs] Right

 

K: And so like, no one ever looks at me and is like "The only reason you're here in college is because of Affirmative Action."

 

R: Right. Yeah, or assumes that you must have had some sort of connection to the higher ups in the University-

 

K: Right

 

R: In order for you to get there.

 

K: There's no sort of ulterior motive for my success.

 

R: Exactly. Right no, you're just a hard-working citizen. But if a black person in your same circumstances, it's affirmative action, or it's they knew somebody or you know, something somewhere happened.

 

K: There were some quotas.

 

R: Yeah,

 

K: to reach.

 

R: Quotas to meet, you hear that one a lot. So, yeah, being poor sucks, and there is a lot of class privilege that happens, but there's also a lot of race privilege that happens.

 

K: You might be white and your life is still hard, but your life isn't hard, because you're white. And I think that that illustrates that really well.

 

R: Perfect.

 

K: And you know, I think it's also important to talk about because you know, yes, you and I are very privileged because we are white, but we're also women, right? And so you can have privilege, and also still have to deal with different kinds of oppression.

 

R: Exactly.

 

K: Just because you have privilege-

 

R: In one area.

 

K: Doesn't mean that you're not oppressed. Because yeah, poor white people

 

R: Mmhm

 

K: Are, oppressed.

 

R: Yeah, absolutely.

 

K: Because of class privilege right, like, you know, poor people have to pay to use the bank.

 

R: Mmhmm.

 

K: And they have to, you know they have higher interests rates on everything.

 

R: Mmhmm.

 

K: And they're really penalized for being poor.

 

R: Yep.

 

K: And so, you know, and it comes with the whole... And it's often drawn along racial lines,

 

R: Mmhmm

 

K: You know, Food Stamps, and Welfare and all that sort of thing. And so it's important to realize that yes, you can have privilege and still have to deal with things that are oppressive.

 

R: Yep. Well, yeah, and I think that goes, that really talks about the intersectionality of it too, I'll keep going back to that because um, you know, because of the facets of one's identity do intersect, there will be points at which you experience privilege and points at which you experience oppression or marginalization. Just like if I were to give you my full identity title it would be you know, a white, cisgender, pansexual woman who also struggles with mental illness and autoimmunity. And so, in some areas, being white, being cisgender, I am privileged. And then in other areas, you know, being a member of the LGBTQ community, and having hidden illnesses and having grown up poor are ways in which I was oppressed or marginalized. Um, and so, there will be both and that's why intersectional feminism is so important because you're recognizing the intersections in other people's identities but also your own and how to you know, recognize ok, in this area I'm privileged so I'm going to take a seat and let someone else talk and share their lived experience in this area. And then in this other area, you know what, like, you know own my marginalization and own what that means to me and attempt to move forward from that.

 

K: Mmhmm. I think what you said about taking a seat, I think that was something else that was really hard for me to kind of learn, because I've always just been kind of a loudmouth asshole.

 

R: [Laughs] I can attest to that.

 

K: I've always, yeah you can. I've always had a lot of opinions.

 

R: Right.

 

K: And I think you know, I had the reaction that, I've seen other people have too, where it's so easy to get defensive.

 

R: Mmhmm

 

K: And be like "But I don't do that."

 

R: Oh yeah.

 

K: Like,  "I didn't ask for this."

 

R: Right.

 

K: And you know, I want to talk about things. I saw this thing happen. I read this in the news. And like, that's not, that's not what I'm here for in certain conversations.

 

R: Right.

 

K: And you know, some conversations I, you know, have had to learn that I need to sit down and shut up. And not just sit down and shut up but like, really hear what is being said

 

R: Mmhmm

 

K: because I don't know.

 

R: Yeah.

 

K: And you know, it, that's actually been really I feel like... Like.. Freeing, but that doesn't seem like the right word to use. To really kind of realize what I don't know.

 

R: Mmhmm

 

K: And really hearing what other people experience um, and realizing like, how much work still really needs to be done.

 

R: Yeah

 

K: You know, and like, so, I did this project for school, and we did a video where we talked to different women about things that have been said to them that are discouraging in terms of them being in STEM fields.

 

R: Mmhmm

 

K: And I was really surprised because I talked to lots of different women who, and some didn't really want to participate or they didn't want to use this example, but a lot of women who were not white really expressed a lot of racial language too.

 

R: Mmm

 

K: And so, you know, I am a woman in STEM and I have gotten a lot of stuff, but it's always just the fact that I'm a woman. There's never any like "Well, white women aren't as good as this." or "White women really shouldn't be doctors." Or "Is that acceptable in your culture?"

 

R: Mmhmm

 

K: And so like, realizing that like, I get all galvanized and I'm like, ready to break down doors and I'm like "we're going to fight about this!" And then realizing that as awful as I think it is for me, it's worse for other women.

 

R: Yeah. Yeah, and I think that is something that's particularly you know, taking a seat and kind of sitting down and shutting up is particularly difficult for white women because I think as women, we've fought against white men silencing us constantly, and doing the 'well, actually' and trying to talk over us constantly and you know, this sort of assumption that we don't know as much as white men do and we have to sort of prove ourselves-

 

K: Mmhmm

 

R: And so I think it does take a lot of unpacking for a white woman to say "you know what? I've done all this fighting to have a voice, but in this particular area I don't have one," and that's ok to realize and recognize and it's ok to sort of relate to that person on that level. Like, You know what? I remember what it was like to not have a voice in this scenario, and I don't want to do that to someone else. That's kind of how I had to place it in my own experience. And I'll tell a really embarrassing story about when I was still unpacking and I just couldn't like, let things go. But there was an article that I read once, or no no no, sorry, this was an experience in a classroom I had. And I was in a socio-linguistics class and a black woman in my class got really upset because we were talking about the development of language in the Appalachian community. And you know, how their dialect means very specific things, so you hear like "gone a-fishin'" kind of a thing and you think like "Oh, that's broken English" and actually it means very specific things. So we were learning about language and the development of language and a black woman in my class got really upset because she you know, kind of had this a-ha moment in the middle of class like "I'm never really going to know the development of my language because I don't even know where my ancestors come from because of hello, slavery and this whole experience" and you know, she had to take a second and walk out of class and I remember just feeling like "Oh come on." Like, Black women-

 

K: [Gasp] Rosey!

 

R: I know! I know! And it was kind of this "Come on, black women aren't the only people who've experienced that! My ancestors are Native American and I don't know much about them and so I don't know any of the development of language of my Native American ancestors because I don't even know specifically which nations you know, my family's from and all that kind of stuff. And so, you know, going from that place and having to realize like, woah! Two completely different things and having to come to that experience, but I think as white women we just have a tough time with that. And we feel like, you know just like poor white people have a tough time with the white privilege thing, we have a tough time recognizing there are spaces in fact that do not involve us and we need to just be respectful and take a seat and learn.

 

K: Well, and I think you know too, there's this idea right, that I don't ever consider necessarily being white part of my identity. Like, I just, and that is privilege.

 

R: Mmhmm

 

K: That comes from the fact that I, you know, white people are very well represented.

 

R: Yeah. We do not have to be reminded that you're white.

 

K: You know the default for everything is white people. And white voices and so I never am like "Oh, I'm white." I just get to be. And you know, so for me, when I think about, or when I used to think about feminism, right, and it was like "This is, we just need to like FIGHT IT!"

 

R: MMM.

 

K: And it does seem like right, when we just fight the patriarchy and we move forward and everything just gets better for everybody, and like, having to realize that like, white women don't carry other people forward.

 

[Laughter]

 

R: Yeah, yeah

 

K: And like, the fact that you know, I wasn't aware that you know, for a long time that black women made so much less money than white women.

 

R: Yeah that one blew my mind, too.

 

K: And it's so easy to think that you're, the issues that you face are the same, right, because when you have privilege you don't always recognize right, that there are other issues for other people. Because they don't affect you.

 

R: Yeah.

 

K: And so I think that's one of the things that's really valuable about making sure that you are listening to and hearing voices of people that are often not represented and in fact excluded from these kinds of conversations because you don't know what you're missing.

 

R: Mmhmm.

 

K: You don't know what you don't know. So it's really important to hear from other people.

 

R: Yeah. Exactly, I mean, how are we ever going to learn about any of it if we don't, quiet. You know, just be quiet for a second, just listen. So yeah, I agree that that's really important.

 

K: I think one thing that was really valuable for me was when I started learning about reproductive justice, you know, I was directed to Sister Song, and they had some great information. And then you know, I started searching out other, 'scuse me, other writing by other women of color.

 

R: Mmhmm

 

K: And so like, when people were upset with Miley Cyrus for twerking, I didn't read things by white people.

 

R: Yes.

 

K: Being like, oh it's dancing! No. I was like,

 

R: Let's see, why this is harmful.

 

K: Right, people are saying this is cultural appropriation, people are saying it's cultural appropriation from the black community, I should read what the black community has to say about this.

 

R: Right.

 

K: 'Cause it's the black community is who it affects.

 

R: Right, it's their lived experience it's who it affects and so you want to learn directly from them like, what, explain to me what part of your culture is this affecting?

 

K: But you know, like we were talking about earlier, it's really important not to you know, expect them to teach you. And so like, what I do, is I read as much as I can. And I try to understand because you know, it's also important to realize right, that like, if I read one article about Miley Cyrus twerking, that's one person.

 

R: Exactly

 

K: And they do not speak for the entire community that they belong to.

 

R: Mmhmm, mmhmm.

 

K: And they should not be expected to be spokespeople. And so it's really important to get as MUCH information from as many different places as you can,

 

R: Mmhmm, mmhmm.

 

K: But make sure that you put that priority on the voices of people in that community.

 

R: Yeah.

 

K: And then when you have questions, you know, you need to be mindful of who and how you're asking.

 

R: Yeah, Exactly, yeah.

 

K: You don't want to show up in the comments of [laughter] one of these articles, and be like-

 

R: [affects nasally voice] Wait a second!

 

K: But I like to twerk!

 

R: Yeah. And you know, most of the information will be out there. There will be people addressing it. And so you know, you just have to be patient and do the work and do the research. You know, one of the really cool things that my husband said once, and I'm married to a black man and he explained it to a good friend of ours once, in the way that when you come and ask me "Hey what's this like for you because you're a black man and this affects you, right? So like, what's this like? And explain this to me?" it's very invasive to him. And not only are you asking him to be representative of an entire group of people which is very homogenizing,

 

K: Mmhmm

 

R: You're you know, you're being very invasive of his private feelings and emotions. And my husband's you know, you know him, [laughs] he's very-

 

K: I know your husband? What? [laughs]

 

R: You do! Yeah. Um, he's a very you know, private person and he also like, needs a lot of time to process his responses. So when you're in his face like "Wait tell me about this, what's this like, what duh duh duh duh" it's very like "Woah." And it sometimes may not be something that he's unpacked either and so the way that he put it that I thought was super helpful as a white person to understand, or as not a black person to understand, was just like, think about it as you know, if someone has cancer. Someone you know has cancer and you know, instead of being, normally when people have cancer we're very sympathetic, and you know, we're just like "What do you need from me, how can I be there for you?" that kind of thing, you don't go to that person with cancer and you're just like "Does it hurt? Like, what does it feel like though? What is like vomiting all the time?"

 

K: I mean, I might do that to you.

 

[laughter]

 

R: You would do that to me.

 

K: But only you!

 

R: [laughs] But you know what I mean, like, it's just an invasive thing.

 

K: And I'd walk around like "Oh I have a friend with cancer. "

 

R: [laughter] Exactly! Oh I know what that's like! Because I have a friend who has that! You know like, it's very invasive though and just imagine treating someone you know is in this difficult situation as your sort of, knowledge base over 'how does that feel' it's just so invasive so I think that's a good way to think about it. You know you're invading that person-

 

K: Right

 

R: When you're asking them those questions. Those are very personal questions.

 

K: Right

 

R: And it's also like, you know we're very focused on white people and black people right now. Well, let's take it over to like, transgender individuals

 

K: Right, Oh my god.

 

R: And people who ask them about their genitalia? Oh my god!

 

K: Right, right

 

R: Like Oh my god! What are you even doing? You wouldn't walk up to, you know.

 

K: You know what I would do if somebody walked up to me and was like "Let's talk about your genitals?" I'd be like "Let's call the police."

 

R: Yeah! Right, that's creepy as fuck!

 

K: This is sexual harrassment.

 

R: I feel threatened right now! I mean it's just I think just.. Think about yourself for a second and take a second before start asking those questions. But yeah, you were talking about resources and one of the things I really like in particular about the facebook group that I was a part of and I will continue to mention this group over and over again, was that they did build up a lot of files so you had all of this reference material and you had all these resources and it was things you know, from Kimberle Crenshaw and Peggy Macintosh who talks about unpacking white privilege. And it was articles and links to everydayfeminism.com and jezebel.com and all those

 

K: Black Girl Dangerous

 

R: Black Girl Dangerous is a great one, and then Franchesca Ramsey and all of her videos on YouTube are just, I mean,

 

K: I think Black Girl Dangerous shut down though.

 

R: Oh no! Seriously?

 

K: I know I'm so sad.

 

R: Oh gosh. that was a good one. Like, I feel like I got a lot of stuff from that one. Well that's sad. But yeah, so there is a lot of information out there and I feel like all you have to do is search, you know, "Why is Miley Cyrus twerking bad", or "Miley Cyrus twerking cultural appropriation" and just check for at the end of that Huffington Post article, you know, is that a black woman you know, and if not then it's not an opinion that really matters in the conversation.

 

K: Right.

 

R: And I think that's another thing people were so worried about think pieces after Beyonce's Lemonade, and they're worried about that because white women, we tend to stick ourselves, and white men too, tend to stick ourselves in the middle of those conversations that aren't ours.

 

K: I feel perfectly comfortable saying, that like, you know, when I've talked to you about Lemonade, I've had things to say about it and feelings that it made me have, and I have stated to you directly "Like, I'm not posting this on facebook."

 

R: Exactly

 

K: I'm not going to talk to people about this. Or use my social media as a platform to say why I thought that this particular thing was really meaningful to me, because it's not for me.

 

R: Mmhmm

 

K:  And it's not like, my space.

 

R: Mmhmm

 

K: And you know, I think for me, like talking about race I think that twitter has been really helpful, in terms of me getting really good at sitting down and shutting up.

 

R: [laughs]

 

K: You know, President Obama was talking about black twitter you know, a couple days ago or something and you know, I.. When the Black Lives Matter movement had like a twitter campaign and I started following a lot of people who were tweeting with that. And, now I just watch my feed. And I don't argue with people.  And I'm one of those people who's like "You just said the most dumbass thing and now I have to like, scorch the Earth-

 

R: [Laughs]

 

K: With your body, and so I've really been able to translate that to other conversations. Is I'm like, well, let's see, I'm just going to watch this.

 

R: Yeah, Right.

 

K: You know, I'm just going to see. And like, that Solidarity is for White Women I thought was amazing.

 

R: Mmhmm

 

K: and I could not get over how many white women were showing up and complaining.

 

R: UGH come on!

 

K: Well, it's not, this isn't about you!

 

R: Right!

 

K: And the whole point is that it's not about you, it's why it's "solidarity is for white women" and you want to show up and be like "But wait guys, not all white women!" And like, we know why that's wrong when it's not all men, but white women can't seem to grasp

 

R: Why can't you translate that, generalize your concepts apply your knowledge.

 

K: Right, Not all cis people!

 

[laughter]

 

R: Yeah, not all men! It's like, uh, come one. Or you know, All lives matter. Like,

 

Both: Don't even get me started.

 

[laughter]

 

R: I can't. I really can't with that.

 

K: Well, and it just. I think it's a really good example of this white privilege where white people are so used to everything being

 

Both: About us.

 

K: and so like, you know, we're most of the faces on tv, we're most of the faces in movies. Even movies that are not about white people.

 

R: Oh, yes.

 

K: You know, we, I took an intro to Black Writers Class and we talked about one of the authors who said "People assume I'm writing about white people unless I describe the character and mention that they're black."

 

R: So true!

 

K:  And so like, there's this automatic assumption that everything is about us. So the minute that somebody else is like "Hey..." [white] People are like, "Well, what about everybody else?"

 

R: Exactly

 

K: And like, look at like, for example the Washington Redskins. You know, white people love to dig into that "Well it's tradition."

 

R: UGH

 

K: "It's always been this way."

 

R: Right

 

K: And then, I cannot, this is terrible I can't remember his name. A black rapper wore a shirt that was like the Cleveland Indians design, which again, really offensive Cleveland, thanks.

 

R: Right! [laughter]

 

K: But it was 'Cracker' and instead of a feather it was a dollar sign. And people were pissed!

 

R: And like, how do you not recognize that those two scenarios are extremely similar?  First of all I just wish I could kiss that rapper on the mouth because I feel like it's such a statement

 

K: Oh man,

 

R: and you know he knew what he was doing and he was just like "Ok, ok white people, let's see how you feel about it when you're the ones on mascots."

 

K: And what kills me is they're like "Everyone gets mad about the Indians but no one cares about the 'Cracker'" Well no nobody cares! You missed the whole fucking point! What the hell is wrong with you!? And I just.. You know, so you're right, we've focused a lot on white privilege. But I think just, you know, we should round out with some of the other kinds of privilege that other people have. You mentioned it when you talked about your social location.

 

R: Mmhmm

 

K: But you know, I think it's important to remember that it applies to all of these different intersecting places.

 

R: Yes.

 

K: And so like, cis people have privilege.

 

R: Right yeah, when you are of the gender that you were assigned at birth, if that's your gender identity, then you are considered cisgender and you have a lot of privilege in that way.

 

K: Yeah, like no one is trying to legislate where you can go to the bathroom.

 

R: Yep. Yeah, nobody's asking you about your genitals [laugh]

 

K: I like that that makes you laugh. Here's why! Because we're not adults and she said genitals.

 

R: [still laughing]

 

K: Watch this. Shh. Stop laughing. [laughing stops] Butt.

 

[both laugh]

 

R: You made yourself laugh, so I don't know why you would think that it's me

 

K: I was laughing at you!

 

R: No, it makes me laugh too because it's so ludicrous. Like why would you walk up to someone and be like "Do you still have your penis?"

 

K: I've never even been curious!

 

R:  Get out of my face! Like, why does that even matter?

 

K: Am I trying to have sex with you? Then why do I care what your genitals are?

 

R: Even then! Well, as a pansexual I say even then. Because I do not care.

 

K: Well no, as someone who identifies as straight, which also comes with a lot of privilege, I don't even care.

 

R: But that is a sexual situation and that is not just like, a person in your life.

 

K: It would sure as hell not be a stranger! [claps]

 

R: Unless you're my doctor you really do not need to be asking that question. You know, I feel, I feel like it's so ludicrous that you would ask someone about their genitalia. But anyways. Cisgender individuals have privilege, straight people have privilege, white people have privilege,

 

K: Wealthy people.

 

R: Men have privilege

 

K: Men have privilege

 

R: Wealthy people have a lot of privilege.

 

K: Even, and with class too, it breaks down pretty far really, because you have wealthy people, who have the most privilege and then you've got middle class people who don't have necessarily as much privilege as the rich people, like, they still have to pay taxes.

 

R: [laughs] I like how you threw that in there.

 

K: I'm just saying, there's not probably a lot of offshore accounts and Panama Papers middle class people...

 

R: We're looking at you Trump. [ Kate coughs] Sorry, I just had to, I had to.

 

K: And then you know, you have the marginalized, lower class, and I hate even calling it that. But like the people living under the poverty line. That's how I'm going to describe that. Because lower class has a really negative connotation, and it has that connotation because we've marginalized people below the poverty line.

 

R: Yeah. Yeah.

 

K: Right and so, she's low class.

 

R: yeah, low class, lazy is a big one.

 

K: I've never understood honestly why people say "classy." Like, "Oh they're so classy."

 

Both: Like, what does that mean?

 

K: They look so rich?

 

R: I think that's exactly what that means.

 

K: I mean, which class? Which class?

 

R: And think about that. If someone is trashy, you know what I mean

 

K: They're disposable.

 

R: you have a very clear idea of what that means.

 

K: Oh yeah. Oh yeah.

 

R: So yeah absolutely classy means they look like they come from money.

 

K: Absolutely. Just think of who gets described that way?

 

R: Exactly.

 

K: You know, Cary Grant in his tux. Audrey Hepburn. Who by the way, is you know, not- here's a good one "not all rich people."

 

R: No she was amazing.

 

K: Audrey Hepburn did a lot of really good things. And this is a good example of like, gender privilege, male privilege, is that she did a ton of humanitarian work, but she is remembered for being pretty.

 

R: Oh yeah, mmhmm.

 

K: Because she's a woman. And all women are good for is looking pretty.

 

R: We could go into a lot with her because she also did a lot of paving for the way of funny women. She was definitely one of the first comediennes.

 

K: And Lucille Ball.

 

R: Lucille Ball who's just like one of my favorites!

 

K: Oh we're going to get off on a tangent.

 

R: Now we're going to be talking about our favorite womens.

 

K: We've talked about all these different kinds of privilege right, so when we're talking about intersectionality, excuse me, [laugh] we've talked about all these different kinds of privilege and when we bring that back to intersectionality what we see is all these different privileges and oppressions intersect.

 

R: Mmhmm

 

K: And your layers may look different than other peoples. You know, mine looks very different than Rosey's. We have some things in common, but I also identify as straight, so that's privilege that I have you do not.

 

R: Yeah. And my struggle with autoimmunity, and that gets into even more of the nitty gritty of the intersectionality, you know the struggling with disability and there are various kinds of disabilities, so you might have that in common with someone, but then the various types of disabilities and the degrees of disabilities all gets into even more stuff. But another really interesting topic of privilege that we haven't discussed but we will get into in our next several podcasts is Christian Privilege.

 

K: Mmhmm

 

R: Or, religious privilege in general and then we're going to talk specifically about Christian Privilege.

 

K: And part of the reason that that's where we've decided to kind of start off with this is not because  you know, like, we hate Christian people,  but because there's a lot of laws being passed right now, or pushed through committees or this sort of thing that really embody the idea of Christian Privilege.

 

R: So we took several current topics that we wanted to discuss, and just so happened that what we were looking at were a lot of examples of Christian Privilege. So that's why we've decided to start there. And sort of the format moving forward we want to talk about that we're going to have these sort of umbrella topics and that we're going to do sort of subcategories within those topics, so we'll be discussing Christian Privilege for several episodes moving forward and within each episode there will be a subcategory of Christian Privilege.

 

K: So we're going to do like these, mini-series sort of topics. And with, you know we've talked about with each podcast we're going to have like, vocabulary. And so one of the things we're going to talk about is how the media should talk about transgender people for example. Another privilege that cis people have, nobody messes up my pronouns-

 

R: Right.

 

K: Nobody calls me the wrong name in newspaper articles, we're going to talk about that. So we're going to have the appropriate language, we're going to have articles to read and like we mentioned before we're going to have like a forum for discussion.

 

R: And so next week's episode, or not next week but in a couple weeks, our episode is going to be about the bills that have been presented to various house committees and the Senates of various states that are about transgender individuals and which restrooms they can and can not use. So we're going to be discussing those in a couple weeks. And so if you have any specific questions or things you would like us to cover or anything like that, please Facebook us, or Twitter us. [laughs] Twitter us. Tweet us. I'm clearly not the Twitter person.

 

K: I'm the Twitter person.

 

R: I'm the Facebook person!

 

K: And you can also email us.

 

R: Yes.

 

K: If you you know, want a more private forum. Which I think you can message us on Facebook.

 

R: Yes, you can PM us on Facebook. There's that too, but yeah, if you'd rather email us.

 

K: But we have an email it's FeastingFeminists@gmail.com. So we'd love to hear from you, if you've got some stuff you want us to talk about or make sure we don't leave out so go ahead and.... do that... [laughter] Go ahead and contact us and we'll see you in a couple weeks!

 

R: Alright, bye!

 

K: Bye. That was weird... Bye.

 

[Music]